Steve Ingram

Occupation: fraud and anti-money laundering specialist

By Madeleine Collins
Mon 09 Apr 2007

Steve Ingram has made a career of helping clients deal with corporate fraudsters. From working in the federal police narcotics squad and New South Wales' Independent Commission Against Corruption to developing fraud security measures for Commonwealth Bank of Australia, Ingram now runs PricewaterhouseCoopers' forensic services.

What is the area of work you enjoy the most?

I get a lot of satisfaction out of a good fraud management program. You can never eliminate fraud, but you can make it more difficult for people to commit fraud and you can put systems in place to help with early detection. The sooner you recognise that there may be a problem the sooner you can do something about it. In one case I worked on, the CEO and the CFO have been working together for 12 years and were godfather to each other's children. Through an investigation we conducted, the CEO discovered that the CFO had been skimming money from the books. I have been in a similar situation myself when a guy on my team at the federal police was corrupt - it gutted me. You feel hollow inside and ask yourself: "How can I ever trust my judgment again?" I worked with this guy, we kicked down doors together, we crawled through backyards together and he was corrupt. It makes you realise you are only human. Helping CEOs with their problems and maintaining their focus on their business is very rewarding too.

What are the similarities between working with the federal police and now?

If there's one similarity, it's getting that phone call at 5 o'clock on Friday afternoon. We do client satisfaction surveys all the time and constantly get very positive feedback on our responsiveness and our ability to get across the situation quickly and help our client to understand what's going on. When a client calls and asks you to help them, you need to be able to map out a strategy in a very short period. You need to make careful decisions but quick decisions keeping in mind that investigation is like a jigsaw puzzle. It's the same with the police, you'll get a phone call about a big drug bust at the airport - you've got a couple of minutes to convince the person that it's a much better outcome to help you capture the people who are actually importing it.

What are the stress levels like?

I'm fired up on the challenge of getting things going and I've got a great team with a diverse background to make it happen. I'm actually pretty happy with myself and the way I handle stress. I had my medical last year and my weight was down, my fitness was up, my stress was great. I get more stressed on the weekend than by work.

Is the finance community becoming more serious about corporate crime?

There is a greater interest in corporate crime. The professional recognition of internal audit has grown over the past 10 years through initiatives by groups such as the Institute of Internal Auditors and the firm. Fraud risk management can add a lot of value too. We just need to lift the standards and grow the recognition. There has also been a rise in the number of electronic delivery channels, such as electronic and Internet banking. With the increased use of technology, banks are interested in electronic crime and need to be able to build confidence within the community that electronic delivery channels are reliable. As businesses become more technically savvy, so to do the crooks. The challenge is keeping ahead of the curve when crooks are the curve.

So corporate crime is becoming more sophisticated?

Absolutely. We have seen economic crime activity in Australia which includes fraud, piracy and money laundering now at a volume that hasn't been recognised before. Organised crime is global. You get a lot of European and Asian organised crime organisations orchestrating attacks on local organisations. Before 2000 most of the concern about credit card fraud, for example, was around individuals - opportunists stealing cards and using them. But the issue now with credit cards is not the opportunist but the organised crime.

Is the Nigerian scam still going?

It is. There is no such thing as new fraud, just new ways of perpetrating it. There's hardly anyone out there who doesn't know about the Nigerian scam, but people are still being scuttled by it. Fraudsters have gone from faxes and letters to email as well. They've got their own research and development departments.

Are companies coming to grips with the new counter-terrorism bill?

People are recognising the need for fraud security, anti-money laundering and counter-terrorism. It's like I'm going to the airport this afternoon and I know I'm going to have to put everything down, put my laptop through the scanner, walk through three times, take my shoes off, take my socks off. You just have to. I don't see people in the queue getting upset by the security measures. I think companies have recognised they've got a role to play as well. In fact, the industry has a role to play. Financial planning has a role to play because they've got to make themselves a harder target. If we can make financial services a harder target, we'll raise confidence in Australia's financial borders.

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